I can't begin to fathom the level of betrayal these long-term spouses and partners must feel when this occurs. They must begin to question everything about their time together.
What I'm interested in knowing is if the "transitioner" was always this selfish and egocentric and the partner just accepted it or is this something new.
One advantage of being old is that you realize that "this new thing" ISN'T NEW. Only the form of intense selfishness changes. A couple of decades ago, the victim I knew was the long-suffering wife of a man who, after many years of marriage and several children, decided he was gay, left her and the kids, and moved in with a male partner. In the process, he took down not only his family but some dear friends as well. No doubt he would say that he was always gay and was only finally being true to himself, but all I see is a man who made solemn promises before God to a woman, and implied promises to the children he fathered, and broke them all in the name of serving his own desires. We have no right to happiness that comes at the cost of devastating those we have sworn to love, honor, protect, and defend.
Selfishness is nothing new; it merely changes its form. As it is nourished and celebrated, it grows stronger and more evil.
"We have no right to happiness that comes at the cost of devastating those we have sworn to love, honor, protect, and defend."
Very true. Despite the incredibly talented cast in Netflix's Grace and Frankie, I couldn't watch past the first episode. This scenario, without the children, happened to a friend of mine. There was not much humor to be found in the situation.
Great writing by both Heather and Shannon. For better or worse, gender roles ae now in a state of flux that few of us can keep up with. I want everyone to have the life they want. But everyone wants a life that involves other people, and therein lies the rub. How much should one person adapt to another? How much can anyone expect? If someone changes the rules in the middle of the game, is everyone else required to comply?
Perhaps that's what's been lost in translation. Changes in mores and gender perceptions do not change our age-old requirement to treat others as we would be treated (The golden rule). That is constant. If one expects me to consider their issues, I have a right to expect mine to be considered. In the accounts listed in the post, the consideration is one-sided, and perhpas that is the real problem.
Well, any marriage is such a game. Heck, any interpersonal relationship at all is such a game -- people can and will change. I get the impression that TRI's comment was referring to society in general.
Yes, indeed. But for the record, while my first marriage started weak and went downhill from there, my second marriage has been rock solid. It's been over forty years, and not a moment of doubt or questioning if I made a good choice. No regrets at all. Do we always get along great? No. But our batting average is impressive.
Sorry to speak so bluntly. But in the case of Shannon Thrace and her husband, it's her husband's porn-sick brain causing this. It's clear from the excerpt provided he wants his wife to role-play a real-life porno. Hopefully, they didn't have children. There are many cases in which the man runs off to have a myriad of homosexual partners or to pretend they're a female on aphrodisiacs.
As for Kai she simply seeks attention among her female companions. She must constantly do things to get the attention and adoration she feels she deserves. The problem is the lgbtqia sex cult demands an unyielding affirmation. Every claim made must be said to be true unless it directly threatens the group's ideas of women and men being trapped in each other's bodies.
An important note is the internet has been a largely radicalizing force for both men and women. The men and their porn and the women and their online communities. A lot more could be said, but this is simply how it currently exists.
This really seems like projecting or attributing qualities to these people that are not mentioned by the article. In the case of Shannon Thrace's husband, he may be "porn-sick," (autogynophylliac) but that's not the only explanation. Kai may be attention-seeking from others, but again this is not the only explanation.
What we know is that these people have been influenced by modern thinking and gender ideology, likely via the internet, and that led to the downfall of both relationships. It's wrong to assume any additional motives behind their behaviors without additional evidence.
You are beyond correct. This is a projection and attribution of the common reasons giving rise to these behaviors. I stated these things in the affirmative not because I can wholly prove them based on the material represented by Heather, but because I can use my prudence and judgment of the most common reasons to attribute them to these individuals. Shannon's husband is wearing a hot pink bimbo outfit. Kai wants to belong to the group and the "in-crowd" of the lgbtqia sex cult.
What's most notable among the men and women who self-identify as the opposite sex or something that doesn't exist is that they do it for different reasons most often. Men most often have some sex activity they wish to live out and the women have some striving to belong to a group that's fixated on upholding body image issues. Damn the consequences and blaspheme the truth.
All that said, I am probably right and your critique is definitely right.
A man CAN'T know what it is like to be a woman ( or girl, or mother, etc) That is why they are such crude caricatures of women no matter what their pronouns are!
How many couples broken up because one of the pair decided later in life that the promises they made really aren't working out for them?
I think I'm at 8 now.
8 couples-till death do they part - parted because one of the 2 decided that what they thought they had been attracted to really wasn't so attractive after all. I am not counting the garden variety divorce where he or she grew tired with his or her choice.
This count of 8 are people who decided that the man or woman they had planned to spend their life with turned out to be the wrong sex. Do any of you know this many, or am I hitting some statistical anomaly.
Jordan P puts far better than I ever could. Stop thinking that following your next whim will make you happy. Pick up the biggest rock you can, and carry it as far as you can today. Then do it all over again tomorrow. You'll grow strong.
Another quote I like "everyone is 'looking' for the right partner when they should be focused on 'being' the right partner. " not sure who to attribute that to.
"At that subtle moment when man glances backward over his life, Sisyphus returning toward his rock, in that slight pivoting he contemplates that series of unrelated actions which becomes his fate, created by him, combined under his memory's eye and soon sealed by his death. Thus, convinced of the wholly human origin of all that is human, a blind man eager to see who knows that the night has no end, he is still on the go. The rock is still rolling.
I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks.
He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
- ALBERT CAMUS, The Myth of Sisyphus"
And one that speaks to Heathers expertise, can't remember where I got this?
"TERRITORY
91
not been other, save individually, till this day; and he is growing more grisly down our days, wherefore, less likely to persist as a species. For it is the law of nature that no species, no group, and no nation shall misjudge its own nature, or the purposes of that essence without penalty of a like degree, that is, extinction."
I'm so sick and tired of the obsession with clothing and makeup and how so many seem to define sex by one's fashion choices. Clothing and grooming standards are nothing more than cultural standards and they play an important role, like which side of the road one drives on. But by the trans cult grooming logic, if I drive on the left side of the road in the US, it will make me a British driver. "I realized that shit was holding me back. I needed to navigate the world with my hands and feet unfettered. I needed to experience and to grow." That was always my attitude. Some women love that stuff, as do some men and that's okay, until it becomes disruptive or makes demands of others.
Clothing ... that's a good point. 80 years ago, the average middle class person owned two sets of clothing. Their daily wear, and their Sunday best. Only if you were wealthy could you afford multiple outfits. The average person didn't fret over clothing, other than to mend it and keep it clean. People wouldn't have the ability to 'try on outfits', explore other genders, what-not. You were stuck with the two sets you had.
Excellent point. I think we should all be issued potato sacks as clothing with makeup either required to be worn by all or else completely banned. Just kidding! But I've no doubt everyone would still be able to identify the males and the females. It would make Progressive heads explode.
I know if I ask my spouse how I look she is going to answer according to the broadest standard of acceptability. As in, "He's a human. He's clothed. The clothes generally appear in the correct place. He appears to have all the limbs he is supposed to have, etc. . . ." This is not to say that she doesn't spontaneously compliment my "look" and vice-versa, of course. However, in answering the age-old "How do I look?" question, it is simply not relevant to her way of thinking. But that's o.k. If I want a more discerning opinion, and if I'm up for the cold truth, I'll ask one of my daughters.
The transgendered seem so confused. They didn't like what they were and have no idea what they they wanted to become. All of us are dealt the hands we are dealt. Either at birth or later in life. Much of the "wisdom" passed down from the ages past can be summarized as "know yourself" and "acccept yourself". If one is not the man or woman that one desires to be, then work to become that person. Don't flee reality or your responsibilities by role playing as something that you cannot become in any sense of the word. I have been openly gay ( but not so as to shock) for almost 60 years. I am what I am. I try to live an honorable life without negative impacts on the lives of others. I don't demand to be treated as what I am not, although those that think I am straight are certainly welcome to do so. But I was born male, and despite the attractions of technology I will continue to present as one. I would be lying if I denied that there were lesbians that I wanted to boink over the years but I never thought pretending to be female was a path to that. I truly believe that the medical "professionals" that have sold confused people the lie that surgery and a lifelong regimen of drugs is the "answer" to all of their problems should be prosecuted as the quacks they are. Let me just close with an acknowledgement to those "non-standard" couples who knowingly entered their relationships whether gay men with "beards" or any of the other permutations that I don't know the correct language for. Honesty is THE most important thing between couples closely followed by mutual respect. With Honesty and respect, an accommodation can be found. Lies to one's self can never be accommodated and should not be expected to be.
Yuk, what a mess that exists downstream from incompetence in my field.
The APA was supposed to manage Trans responsibly. That means:
Providing Trans-oriented individuals with vocabulary to correctly describe their experience.
Green-lighting only those patients who are not delusional, (Born in wrong body, Living a lie, etc.)
Honestly informing the public that no psych tool exists to capture Trans, which means that cross-sex drugs/surgery is “elective procedure” and not treatment.
I can't begin to fathom the level of betrayal these long-term spouses and partners must feel when this occurs. They must begin to question everything about their time together.
What I'm interested in knowing is if the "transitioner" was always this selfish and egocentric and the partner just accepted it or is this something new.
In my case, it was new. Sure, he had his flaws like everyone, but selfishness wasn't really an issue.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm sorry for what you've had to go through. Just ordered your book and am looking forward to reading it.
One advantage of being old is that you realize that "this new thing" ISN'T NEW. Only the form of intense selfishness changes. A couple of decades ago, the victim I knew was the long-suffering wife of a man who, after many years of marriage and several children, decided he was gay, left her and the kids, and moved in with a male partner. In the process, he took down not only his family but some dear friends as well. No doubt he would say that he was always gay and was only finally being true to himself, but all I see is a man who made solemn promises before God to a woman, and implied promises to the children he fathered, and broke them all in the name of serving his own desires. We have no right to happiness that comes at the cost of devastating those we have sworn to love, honor, protect, and defend.
Selfishness is nothing new; it merely changes its form. As it is nourished and celebrated, it grows stronger and more evil.
"We have no right to happiness that comes at the cost of devastating those we have sworn to love, honor, protect, and defend."
Very true. Despite the incredibly talented cast in Netflix's Grace and Frankie, I couldn't watch past the first episode. This scenario, without the children, happened to a friend of mine. There was not much humor to be found in the situation.
that was clean out of the park
Well hit madam
Great writing by both Heather and Shannon. For better or worse, gender roles ae now in a state of flux that few of us can keep up with. I want everyone to have the life they want. But everyone wants a life that involves other people, and therein lies the rub. How much should one person adapt to another? How much can anyone expect? If someone changes the rules in the middle of the game, is everyone else required to comply?
Perhaps that's what's been lost in translation. Changes in mores and gender perceptions do not change our age-old requirement to treat others as we would be treated (The golden rule). That is constant. If one expects me to consider their issues, I have a right to expect mine to be considered. In the accounts listed in the post, the consideration is one-sided, and perhpas that is the real problem.
"If someone changes the rules..."
A game that allows a player to unilaterally change the rules at will, it isn't much of a game any more - but you knew that.
Well, any marriage is such a game. Heck, any interpersonal relationship at all is such a game -- people can and will change. I get the impression that TRI's comment was referring to society in general.
Yes, indeed. But for the record, while my first marriage started weak and went downhill from there, my second marriage has been rock solid. It's been over forty years, and not a moment of doubt or questioning if I made a good choice. No regrets at all. Do we always get along great? No. But our batting average is impressive.
Sorry to speak so bluntly. But in the case of Shannon Thrace and her husband, it's her husband's porn-sick brain causing this. It's clear from the excerpt provided he wants his wife to role-play a real-life porno. Hopefully, they didn't have children. There are many cases in which the man runs off to have a myriad of homosexual partners or to pretend they're a female on aphrodisiacs.
As for Kai she simply seeks attention among her female companions. She must constantly do things to get the attention and adoration she feels she deserves. The problem is the lgbtqia sex cult demands an unyielding affirmation. Every claim made must be said to be true unless it directly threatens the group's ideas of women and men being trapped in each other's bodies.
An important note is the internet has been a largely radicalizing force for both men and women. The men and their porn and the women and their online communities. A lot more could be said, but this is simply how it currently exists.
This really seems like projecting or attributing qualities to these people that are not mentioned by the article. In the case of Shannon Thrace's husband, he may be "porn-sick," (autogynophylliac) but that's not the only explanation. Kai may be attention-seeking from others, but again this is not the only explanation.
What we know is that these people have been influenced by modern thinking and gender ideology, likely via the internet, and that led to the downfall of both relationships. It's wrong to assume any additional motives behind their behaviors without additional evidence.
You are beyond correct. This is a projection and attribution of the common reasons giving rise to these behaviors. I stated these things in the affirmative not because I can wholly prove them based on the material represented by Heather, but because I can use my prudence and judgment of the most common reasons to attribute them to these individuals. Shannon's husband is wearing a hot pink bimbo outfit. Kai wants to belong to the group and the "in-crowd" of the lgbtqia sex cult.
What's most notable among the men and women who self-identify as the opposite sex or something that doesn't exist is that they do it for different reasons most often. Men most often have some sex activity they wish to live out and the women have some striving to belong to a group that's fixated on upholding body image issues. Damn the consequences and blaspheme the truth.
All that said, I am probably right and your critique is definitely right.
I've always wondered how a man, who has not once been a woman, can feel like they are one.
What is their point of reference? What does being a woman feel like? I imagine you could ask thousands of us and you'd get thousands of answers.
This excerpt is sad. I hope that the partners who remained the same have found healthy, authentic new partners to enjoy life with.
A man CAN'T know what it is like to be a woman ( or girl, or mother, etc) That is why they are such crude caricatures of women no matter what their pronouns are!
How many couples broken up because one of the pair decided later in life that the promises they made really aren't working out for them?
I think I'm at 8 now.
8 couples-till death do they part - parted because one of the 2 decided that what they thought they had been attracted to really wasn't so attractive after all. I am not counting the garden variety divorce where he or she grew tired with his or her choice.
This count of 8 are people who decided that the man or woman they had planned to spend their life with turned out to be the wrong sex. Do any of you know this many, or am I hitting some statistical anomaly.
Jordan P puts far better than I ever could. Stop thinking that following your next whim will make you happy. Pick up the biggest rock you can, and carry it as far as you can today. Then do it all over again tomorrow. You'll grow strong.
Another quote I like "everyone is 'looking' for the right partner when they should be focused on 'being' the right partner. " not sure who to attribute that to.
Ah yes! the truth of the rocks!
"At that subtle moment when man glances backward over his life, Sisyphus returning toward his rock, in that slight pivoting he contemplates that series of unrelated actions which becomes his fate, created by him, combined under his memory's eye and soon sealed by his death. Thus, convinced of the wholly human origin of all that is human, a blind man eager to see who knows that the night has no end, he is still on the go. The rock is still rolling.
I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks.
He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
- ALBERT CAMUS, The Myth of Sisyphus"
And one that speaks to Heathers expertise, can't remember where I got this?
"TERRITORY
91
not been other, save individually, till this day; and he is growing more grisly down our days, wherefore, less likely to persist as a species. For it is the law of nature that no species, no group, and no nation shall misjudge its own nature, or the purposes of that essence without penalty of a like degree, that is, extinction."
I'm so sick and tired of the obsession with clothing and makeup and how so many seem to define sex by one's fashion choices. Clothing and grooming standards are nothing more than cultural standards and they play an important role, like which side of the road one drives on. But by the trans cult grooming logic, if I drive on the left side of the road in the US, it will make me a British driver. "I realized that shit was holding me back. I needed to navigate the world with my hands and feet unfettered. I needed to experience and to grow." That was always my attitude. Some women love that stuff, as do some men and that's okay, until it becomes disruptive or makes demands of others.
Clothing ... that's a good point. 80 years ago, the average middle class person owned two sets of clothing. Their daily wear, and their Sunday best. Only if you were wealthy could you afford multiple outfits. The average person didn't fret over clothing, other than to mend it and keep it clean. People wouldn't have the ability to 'try on outfits', explore other genders, what-not. You were stuck with the two sets you had.
Excellent point. I think we should all be issued potato sacks as clothing with makeup either required to be worn by all or else completely banned. Just kidding! But I've no doubt everyone would still be able to identify the males and the females. It would make Progressive heads explode.
I know if I ask my spouse how I look she is going to answer according to the broadest standard of acceptability. As in, "He's a human. He's clothed. The clothes generally appear in the correct place. He appears to have all the limbs he is supposed to have, etc. . . ." This is not to say that she doesn't spontaneously compliment my "look" and vice-versa, of course. However, in answering the age-old "How do I look?" question, it is simply not relevant to her way of thinking. But that's o.k. If I want a more discerning opinion, and if I'm up for the cold truth, I'll ask one of my daughters.
Hahahah, women don't largely care how we look. We just have to be together and functioning.
The tranny asks, "How do I look?" The correct answer is, "Like a dude." Then you get fired, but at least you said the truth.
wait, women don't care how we look?
Why do I get so regularly asked "You're not wearing that out tonight, are you?"
:) Todd, cargo shorts ain't for every occasion!
The transgendered seem so confused. They didn't like what they were and have no idea what they they wanted to become. All of us are dealt the hands we are dealt. Either at birth or later in life. Much of the "wisdom" passed down from the ages past can be summarized as "know yourself" and "acccept yourself". If one is not the man or woman that one desires to be, then work to become that person. Don't flee reality or your responsibilities by role playing as something that you cannot become in any sense of the word. I have been openly gay ( but not so as to shock) for almost 60 years. I am what I am. I try to live an honorable life without negative impacts on the lives of others. I don't demand to be treated as what I am not, although those that think I am straight are certainly welcome to do so. But I was born male, and despite the attractions of technology I will continue to present as one. I would be lying if I denied that there were lesbians that I wanted to boink over the years but I never thought pretending to be female was a path to that. I truly believe that the medical "professionals" that have sold confused people the lie that surgery and a lifelong regimen of drugs is the "answer" to all of their problems should be prosecuted as the quacks they are. Let me just close with an acknowledgement to those "non-standard" couples who knowingly entered their relationships whether gay men with "beards" or any of the other permutations that I don't know the correct language for. Honesty is THE most important thing between couples closely followed by mutual respect. With Honesty and respect, an accommodation can be found. Lies to one's self can never be accommodated and should not be expected to be.
Always such garish "ensembles"!
Yuk, what a mess that exists downstream from incompetence in my field.
The APA was supposed to manage Trans responsibly. That means:
Providing Trans-oriented individuals with vocabulary to correctly describe their experience.
Green-lighting only those patients who are not delusional, (Born in wrong body, Living a lie, etc.)
Honestly informing the public that no psych tool exists to capture Trans, which means that cross-sex drugs/surgery is “elective procedure” and not treatment.